Comments on PERTH AUSTRALIA - 6 0 0 0 T I M E S: Perth : Small Bars Approved in 2011 = GTFO

What is it about Perth that you can't go into ...

2012-01-20T10:43:48.852+08:00

What is it about Perth that you can't go into a place and have a drink - without food? Not even Perth but Australia. Over in the East outside the CBDs it is RSL clubs with pokie machines, here just chain bars with the same stupid and pointless interior as the next. I have only been out in Perth a handful of times since I moved here 2 months ago and i'm sick of it already. Being interrogated by power hungry bouncers, overpriced drink, lady gaga bouncing through the speakers and being refused entry over footwear?! who do these people think they are? if anyone can recommend a small bar that does NOT do food, with some decent music and some conversation please inform me.
The art of conversation in pubs is well and truly lost in this city. How do you meet new people here?

Have you ever thought about going into political s...

2011-10-27T15:33:09.684+08:00

Have you ever thought about going into political satire as a career? Very funny.

More seriously I am from Perth but now live in Milan. Here in Italy on every street corner every 'bar' sells coffee and goodness me, alcohol. Funnily enough I have never seen Italians staggering around drunk interfering with the public good and I have lived here for nearly 10 years. Perhaps those in charge just need to get out more and visit Europe to see how it is done.

It's a subtle move to increase Perth gay numbe...

2011-09-17T15:34:23.655+08:00

It's a subtle move to increase Perth gay numbers.
We are actively being herded to The Court wine bar where we will all be 'turned' from heterosexuals into homosexuals. This conversion will then lead Perth, kicking, mincing and screaming to join the ranks of Melbourne and Sydney. Perth will THEN and only then, be able to call itself, a FUN City with a vibrant night life. Clever eh!

I AGREE. Plz forward your message to Council.

2011-08-22T14:24:00.233+08:00

I AGREE. Plz forward your message to Council.

SPOT ON!

2011-08-12T18:45:26.016+08:00

SPOT ON!

Barry is a liar, that is all.

2011-08-11T16:23:11.328+08:00

Barry is a liar, that is all.

This is a wonderful article. Sums up the situation...

2011-07-31T23:14:59.900+08:00

This is a wonderful article. Sums up the situation beautifully.

It is sooooo frustrating as a resident of Perth that there is a lack of diverse small bars making Perth have a cosmopolitan feel. As someone that's been in the industry, and also flirted with the idea of jumping in and getting a small bar (as many above have done) only to work out that liquor application reward vs effort and expenditure to get there just isn't worth it.

Can't wait to showcase Perth to the world at CHOGM. Hopefully everyone realises how Dullsville we actually are sometime before the next decade. As for me, I'm out. I'm moving somewhere less regulated. Adelaide will even do.

Whenever I walk around Northbridge (which I try no...

2011-07-31T22:27:01.295+08:00

Whenever I walk around Northbridge (which I try not to because to be honest it scares the shit out of me), there are people everywhere. The bars are chocka-block and yet there are people everywhere on the street. If there were more bars there would be less people on the street. It is the dickheads on the streets who start the fights because when they are in a club the bouncers will sort them out if they are being dickheads. Once they are out though, all hell breaks loose. It is sad to see that the minority of people are ruining what should be a fun experience for everyone. We are a nation who likes to socialise over a drink. There is hardly anywhere to go where you can sit down for a drink without having other people sit on top of you just because there is literally no room at all.

Less bars is not going to mean less people in Northbridge either. There are just going to be more people wandering around because they can't get into a pub to drink.

Get your act together Perth. We are a city that boasts so much potential. We live in possibly the most beautiful capital city in Australia and yet it is possibly the most boring. Come on Perth.

I would like to see some discussion on the exempti...

2011-07-29T11:39:08.845+08:00

I would like to see some discussion on the exemptions to the act that were passed on July 16.

I currently have a small bar license pending for 1UP Microcinema. However with these new exemptions, it seems I will be able to serve up to 2 complimentary standard drinks with a movie ticket purchased. There is also the potential to run small occassional functions for up to 75 people for 4 hours until 10pm.

Do you think that RGL will look on my application more favorably with the knowledge that if they do not grant the small bar license, I am just going to do these things anyway?

Oh, and do you all know that RGL now has a Facebook page...

Bento - I personally know of serious operators giv...

2011-07-28T23:12:48.170+08:00

Bento - I personally know of serious operators giving up, or more likely, putting things on hold at this point, or looking for a new angle, *before* they have even begun the application process. These people aren't recorded in any statistical analysis. For this reason, I chose not to look into the hit-rate of approvals vs denials over the last few years.The reality is, there are a minimal number of new licenses approved, and that number it appears to be shrinking.
The very lack of applicants this year speaks volumes, and in my opinion is a culmination of a few years of questionable denials.

It is a combo of problems.

Again, always good to hear from you Bento.

The points you raise are spot on, and incredibly f...

2011-07-28T23:07:07.928+08:00

The points you raise are spot on, and incredibly frustrating. Why are the people of Perth so convinced that if something is not regulated within an inch of its life, we will spiral into some sort of nasty, brutish and short primal anarchy? I'd be interested to know whether the applications (I assume there were some) fell at the liquor licence or town planning stage? I've found the unrealistic parking requirements kill these sort of things off quite early in the piece, even before Rob Johnson and Karlo get the chance to nay-say.

(first sentence removed by N - cheers for the kind words)

Bivouac don't have a bar license. They have a ...

2011-07-25T16:11:33.271+08:00

Bivouac don't have a bar license. They have a single table where you can sit and order a drink without a meal.

The other one on William - is probably the Flipside burger people. Same concept as in North Fremantle, I believe, with a burger joint, and a small bar "next door".

I wish them luck, it would be a shame if such experienced operators were denied.

I popped into Bivouac yesterday - looks like they ...

2011-07-25T12:54:11.763+08:00

I popped into Bivouac yesterday - looks like they have a small bar area at the rear? Perhaps that was approved last year.

Also noted application for alcohol license posted to door a few doors down William St - know which one that was?

Paul, thanks so much. Your last paragraph sums it ...

2011-07-21T22:45:04.139+08:00

Paul, thanks so much. Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly. I appreciate it a lot.

I have nothing against applicants having their app...

2011-07-21T16:14:15.169+08:00

I have nothing against applicants having their application rejected, when the application is poor (e.g. Louve). If an applicant hasn't done their reserch, looked at the legislation properly etc and their application is weak because of this, well tough luck for them.

What I take issue with is that for starters, the legislation itself is not that basic. It should be easy for a layperson to understand, however the fact is that most applicants do need a lawyer to help them understand what the legislation is all about. The ''public interest'' proviso for example is anything but clear. Like many have discussed on here, how does an applicant prove that their application is in ''the public interest''. Doing proper research, it would still be quite apparent that this is not an easy thing to prove, and that more often than not, it's the biggest hurdle in getting an application successfuly approved (note I am not just talking about small bars, but tavern licenses as well).

1907, not allowed to trade until 1 pm on weekends because it's not in the public interest, the Latin, not allowed to ever exist because it would not be in the public interest. Certainly for the Latin, the application would have been prepared with the assistance of some very experienced and able liquor licensing lawyers. Just because an applicant can see what has occured with prior applicants, does not mean that it's easier for them to avoid the inherent difficulty of the legislation.

An applicant could get the support of people in the area, petition those walking by for a week, get signatures from tennants of nearby residents, retailers and offices etc yet still, do you honestly think this would satisfy the requirement that the application be in the public interest. All the Police Commissioner, or any other objector needs to do is to pull out a report, no matter how shaky it may be, showing that alcohol = violence etc and that negates all the work of the applicant. It is akin to holiding someone accused of murder guilty until proven innocent. No matter what the area of law, there is always a huge, difficult burden placed on a party who has the burden of proof. For the issue of liquor licensing, it's simply not conducive to the original spirit of the legislation to put such a burden on an applicant.

If, despite this, an applicant does manage to have their application approved, then as we have seen, this often comes with a myriad of, quite frankly, nonsencical restrictions on trading hours, drinks served, size of drinks served, vessels drinks can be served in, seating arrangements etc. Often the place that one ends up being allowed to open, by the restrictions of the license, is different in many ways than the place that they are allowed to open.

Personally, I've always wanted to open my own little small bar/cafe but, being quite knowledgeable on both the legislation and the experiences of prior applicants, and current license holders, even with the capital, I'd not bother opening up something in Perth with the situation the way it currently is. Imagine all of the applications that never get rejected, because potential applicants have thought very much the same thing, therefore never even applying in the first place.

Coke Zero is a gateway drink that begats Coke, whi...

2011-07-21T08:42:23.613+08:00

Coke Zero is a gateway drink that begats Coke, which begats Redbull, which begats Redbull and vodka... which is where you start wanting pot badly(which, incidentally is a gateway drug for crack, incest and folkdancing). Can't you see why a small bar would be frowned upon?

Someone should do a comparison of the costs of aqu...

2011-07-20T23:11:45.367+08:00

Someone should do a comparison of the costs of aquiring a small bar licence across all major australian cities.

Yes Mate. Very True words. I aspire to open a venu...

2011-07-20T21:06:46.486+08:00

Yes Mate. Very True words.
I aspire to open a venue one day but I'm still fresh in the game (turned 20 on Monday)
Lets hope we can turn things around eventually.

mass respect, You have my support.

The point, Barry, is that it should not be this di...

2011-07-20T17:08:00.964+08:00

The point, Barry, is that it should not be this difficult for an operator to open up a small bar that is clearly catering to the publics insatiable demand for smaller, quieter intimate venues. There is no reason for the operator to prove that it is in the 'public interest', let alone having to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars having lawyers prepare the assessment.
The reason we do not have the variety of venues the other cities enjoy, as well as the reason we pay far more than patrons in other cities is because it is far to difficult and expensive to attain a license.
The policy RGL is operating on is clearly at odds with the work of other sections of the government including the EPRA and at odds with the words of the Premier himself.

Bazza, Lunar Bar was approved in 2009. Conditional...

2011-07-20T17:03:17.143+08:00

Bazza, Lunar Bar was approved in 2009. Conditionally, they may have had a problem as work was due to be completed by September 2010 (as a condition of the license). This bar is not open. There does not appear to be approval for The Duchess, can you show me where this exists? This bar is also, not open. Over the last few years, small bar applications have been knocked back. Some have been quite high profile, given that you work in the industry, I'm surprised you don't know about them. See: http://www.6000times.com/2011/02/perth-so-you-want-to-open-bar-lol.html Bivouac is not a bar. Using that as an example, as well as two bars that haven't actually opened (possibly one does not even have conditional approval), and informing my readers that it is "patently false" that small bars have been knocked back, just shows how dire the situation is. Your optimism of "let it take it's course" is what we were promised four years ago with the change of the licensing regulations. Here we are, four years later, are things better, or worse?

It's time for change. I hope that common sense prevails, and some licenses are issued in the later half of this year.

N, your assumption that zero approved automaticall...

2011-07-20T16:18:48.322+08:00

N,
your assumption that zero approved automatically infers that small bars are getting knocked back is patently false. how many are going through the process as we speak? And as for smart operators that have tried and failed? who? I'm unaware of any small bar license that has been rejected?
Conversely, several high-profile tavern licenses have failed and have had to re-issue or failed the public interest assessment. I get the tone of what you're saying, I want a diverse choice of small venues as much as anyone, but the facts are there are not small bar applications being rejected and by year's end you will see several : note Lunar Bar in wellington St and The Duchess in Claremont are both conditionally approved, with the duchess set to open in a couple of months.
as for the "numbers"- my point is you have to have a really sound concept that encompasses food and wine/ drinks to ensure you can make a living from less than 120 heads. Plenty of new venues, like Bivouac, have chosen to apply for a restaurant license first with the intention of expanding/adapting to a small bar license down the track, because at the moment that just suits them better.
There's no harm in wishing for a more diverse choice of small, intimate venues, but let it take it's course, it will happen.

I agree with craigo. How can all these development...

2011-07-20T13:10:40.453+08:00

I agree with craigo. How can all these developments go ahead and new licences not be approved. I fear that an issue in a few years will be that once the rail line is sunk and the new stadium built in Burswood there will simply be no new bars around them to support the areas. Perth will remain exactly the same.

Thanks, some great compliments in there. Also, che...

2011-07-20T12:50:16.654+08:00

Thanks, some great compliments in there. Also, cheers for spreading the word. Good luck with your studies, I hope you get into a position where you can make a positive contribution to the type of lifestyle Perth offers.

Hey there, I just wanted to let you know that I r...

2011-07-20T12:42:25.132+08:00

Hey there,

I just wanted to let you know that I really enjoy reading your articles and appreciate that there is someone such as yourself in the community who isn’t afraid of voicing their opinion.

As a 3rd year student of Urban Planning at uni and a Local Government Town Planning employee, I find what you write stimulating, informative and incredibly relevant. Of particular interest to me are these articles relating to Perth's dismal liquor licensing laws which in my personal opinion are just another aspect of which lends Perth it's Dullsville tagline.

We, the residents of Perth, are constantly promised an exciting future. Case in point; The Swan River Waterfront. The Northbridge Link. The Football Stadium. But to be honest, this promise of a vibrant future Perth wears thin after a while. And when I say “a while” I mean the better part of my entire life! One of the many reason’s I chose to study Town Planning was due to the possibility of creating engaging places for social interaction into the future. Yet how will this ever be achieved when political debate and bureaucracy have Perth falling behind the rest? I don’t think a large scale project goes through its advertising phase these days without the token “This development will attract highly skilled and young workers are to Western Australia” sentence located somewhere within its opening paragraph.

I didn’t intend to rant here, apologies. What I wanted to say was that there are people such as yourself within the community who share your views, and want to make a change. I do my best to distribute your articles to my friends, family and co-workers and attempt to spread your word.

All the best mate, keep it up!

"anonymous" thanks for your comments. Ye...

2011-07-20T11:58:37.277+08:00

"anonymous" thanks for your comments. Yes, the angle of this article is about approved applications. That's the point - zero approved. You can put any spin on that you want, as can I, but what it boils down to, is there have been zero small bar approvals in 2011.

Regarding the "numbers" - of course the numbers add up, as evidenced by the HUNDREDS (thousands?) of small bars in other cities around Australia.

Smart operators have tried and failed to get licenses. They have come up with sustainable concepts, had the blessing of the Lord Mayor, and the local council, have had years of successful experience in the industry, and still can't get a license.

As for the "best positioned sites" having already been taken, this is clearly not true. A quick stroll around the CBD or Northbridge will show you this.

If there are licenses approved later in 2011, that would be a great outcome. Fingers crossed, as you have a vested interest in this industry.

I don't have a vested interest, I'm just a regular patron who expects MORE from the politicians, authorities, and small bars that are in Perth.